From discuss@opengroupware.org Wed Dec 13 18:03:59 2006 From: discuss@opengroupware.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 13:03:59 -0500 Subject: [OGo-Discuss] BLOGing/Journaling/ACTing [Was: OGo and asterisk, SUMMARY] In-Reply-To: References: <20061123071807.9D3E02546B@l00-bugdead-prods.de> <200611230849.34559.chris123@magma.ca> <20061124071626.z52avuo084k8wcgk@www.mormail.com> <1164646817.3892.48.camel@aleph.whitemice.org> Message-ID: <20061213130359.q6boz13cpw008ss8@www.mormail.com> >> I have three jounal/BLOG-esque applications: >> 1.) For CRM we record a contact journal for a contact and/or enterprise. >> Currently we store this in a separate database, which works but is >> messy and make writing consumers irritating (get this here, get that >> there, etc...). We store the OGo Id in the external database and the >> application has to jump back and forth. >> For this case it is pretty simple: {Date}, {Object Id}, {Comment}, >> {Commentor}, & {Type}. Type relates closely to something like >> appointment type: meeting, call, etc... > Why don't you use a project, that is the notes of a project, for that? I wasn't aware of project classification then. There is also the =20 issue of linking the contact to the appropriate project; but doable =20 via an object link or a property. > Just because it a note has no type? > Because you can't enter the date of a note? Both actually. Both of these things could be added to a note via an =20 object property. (Now i wonder if that is true, that I can't enter a =20 date on a note. If I specify a date in the command to create a note =20 what will happen...) >> In retrospect I could store >> this in the schedular since I think I can retrieve all the 'events' for >> a contact or enterprise in a given date range. For some idiotic reason >> I didn't think you could create an appointment with no account >> participants; so this one is really a brain-fart on my part. I can't >> see any reason why that wouldn't work. By only question would be how to >> properly store events that only have a date and no time; as all day >> events? > I wouldn't store that in the scheduler. >> 2. A work journal. >> This is for lawyer and engineering types. This seems like it would be >> related to a project, but the end-user really looks at it as a journal. >> So some way to query and present a view of all entries by a particular >> user is needed, which may traverse multiple "projects" (at least how >> the end-user is thinking of the concept of "project"). This is the one >> that seems really arbitrary - and they REALLY want it a certain way >> [ lawyers and engineers... if you haven't had the pleasure... :) ] > I can't follow that completely. Isn't that tasks? Attached to projects > and also shows up in an overview. I personally would think so, yes. But how that operates doesn't =20 really correspond to how the users view the issue. Tasks open and =20 close and are fairly specific, Journal entries are strictly =20 chronological and variously 'categorized' entires intermix =20 chronologically. But I think I have this one licked anyway. >> 3. The normal ability to BLOG/Journal on an actual project. Has the >> same question as #2 but the 'where' is pretty obvious. > Well we already have that with project notes? Yep, or very very nearly. >>> Most objects in OGo already do have a "journal" (tasks, appointments, >>> projects). I suspect whats actually needed is some kind of >>> "reporting" frontend here? Possibly just an RSS feed which cumulates >>> the "notes" of the individual object types? >> I agree, at least on Tasks. Otherwise they only 'sort of' have a >> journal; notes could work but I think the functionality would need some >> tweaking. > I was referring to notes. What is missing? Contacts don't have notes, this is one of the big issues. Of course a =20 project can be created for each contact. The limitations on notes can =20 probably be worked around using an external interface. From discuss@opengroupware.org Wed Dec 13 23:21:13 2006 From: discuss@opengroupware.org (Helge Hess) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 00:21:13 +0100 Subject: [OGo-Discuss] BLOGing/Journaling/ACTing [Was: OGo and asterisk, SUMMARY] In-Reply-To: <20061213130359.q6boz13cpw008ss8@www.mormail.com> References: <20061123071807.9D3E02546B@l00-bugdead-prods.de> <200611230849.34559.chris123@magma.ca> <20061124071626.z52avuo084k8wcgk@www.mormail.com> <1164646817.3892.48.camel@aleph.whitemice.org> <20061213130359.q6boz13cpw008ss8@www.mormail.com> Message-ID: <3734BA1B-FB56-4BF3-872F-1D5436F0633D@opengroupware.org> On Dec 13, 2006, at 19:03, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: >> Why don't you use a project, that is the notes of a project, for >> that? > I wasn't aware of project classification then. There is also the > issue of linking the contact to the appropriate project; but > doable via an object link or a property. I'm not sure what you mean. Projects are linked to contacts anyways? (associated contacts/companies). >> Just because it a note has no type? >> Because you can't enter the date of a note? > Both actually. Both of these things could be added to a note via > an object property. (Now i wonder if that is true, that I can't > enter a date on a note. If I specify a date in the command to > create a note what will happen...) Well, even if this is possible, it would be a bug ;-) Creation/ modification dates are internal, if you want a user-defined date, we should add a property or a column. For the type we could probably reuse the file extension since notes have no visible filename anyways. >>> 2. A work journal. >>> This is for lawyer and engineering types. This seems like it >>> would be >>> related to a project, but the end-user really looks at it as a >>> journal. >>> So some way to query and present a view of all entries by a >>> particular >>> user is needed, which may traverse multiple "projects" (at >>> least how >>> the end-user is thinking of the concept of "project"). This is >>> the one >>> that seems really arbitrary - and they REALLY want it a certain way >>> [ lawyers and engineers... if you haven't had the pleasure... :) ] >> I can't follow that completely. Isn't that tasks? Attached to >> projects >> and also shows up in an overview. > I personally would think so, yes. But how that operates doesn't > really correspond to how the users view the issue. Tasks open and > close and are fairly specific, Journal entries are strictly > chronological and variously 'categorized' entires intermix > chronologically. But I think I have this one licked anyway. Hm, so maybe its a "notes" overview. Currently we show notes only in appointment and project viewers, maybe we should have a top-level "Notes" application which cummulates the records. Sounds useful. In fact notes seem to be a perfect fit for journal items. >>>> Most objects in OGo already do have a "journal" (tasks, >>>> appointments, >>>> projects). I suspect whats actually needed is some kind of >>>> "reporting" frontend here? Possibly just an RSS feed which >>>> cumulates >>>> the "notes" of the individual object types? >>> I agree, at least on Tasks. Otherwise they only 'sort of' have a >>> journal; notes could work but I think the functionality would >>> need some >>> tweaking. >> I was referring to notes. What is missing? > Contacts don't have notes, this is one of the big issues. Of > course a project can be created for each contact. Well, my personal opinion is that notes are always bound to a "context" aka a project (eg "sell xyz to abc" [a project] or "case 333, murder vh" [a project]). Even if you just start out with one context (aka project) per contact. So I suppose whats really missing here is a faster way to create projects. And possibly a tab which displays the notes of all projects associated with a contact. Greets, Helge -- Helge Hess http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ From discuss@opengroupware.org Fri Dec 15 16:24:58 2006 From: discuss@opengroupware.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 11:24:58 -0500 Subject: [OGo-Discuss] BLOGing/Journaling/ACTing [Was: OGo and asterisk, SUMMARY] In-Reply-To: <3734BA1B-FB56-4BF3-872F-1D5436F0633D@opengroupware.org> References: <20061123071807.9D3E02546B@l00-bugdead-prods.de> <200611230849.34559.chris123@magma.ca> <20061124071626.z52avuo084k8wcgk@www.mormail.com> <1164646817.3892.48.camel@aleph.whitemice.org> <20061213130359.q6boz13cpw008ss8@www.mormail.com> <3734BA1B-FB56-4BF3-872F-1D5436F0633D@opengroupware.org> Message-ID: <1166199899.3960.50.camel@aleph.whitemice.org> > >> Why don't you use a project, that is the notes of a project, for > >> that? > > I wasn't aware of project classification then. There is also the > > issue of linking the contact to the appropriate project; but > > doable via an object link or a property. > I'm not sure what you mean. Projects are linked to contacts anyways? > (associated contacts/companies). Right, but a contact may be associated with multiple projects; for different reasons. But the 'CRM Journal' is a specific set of information used by the salesperson and/or call-center people. For instance a new salesperson may want to read over all the notes for the contact in the journal; and in our case we have some journals that go back over a decade. So reading the notes on all the projects the contact is associated with isn't really the same thing - there may be notes on those projects that don't pertain specifically to the contact. Of course just looking up project.kind="crm" that the contact is associated will work; so long as there is only one project.kind="crm" for that contact. It would be nice if a project could be associated to a contact in the same way as the fake enterprise project, this ensures a 1:1 correspondence. In the CRM point-of-view, while there are things like campaigns, etc... which look like "projects", the contact itself really is a project. One might think of that project as a catch-bin for all the notes that didn't seem appropriate for any of the specifically created project. It really is bewildering the kind of stuff that gets recorded; if the guy mentions his kid has the flu, that might get recorded - then the note serves as a reminder so the salesperson can ask how his kid is doing next time they communicate. Nauseating manipulative - yes, but their sales people.... and they take that kind of thing very seriously. > >> Just because it a note has no type? > >> Because you can't enter the date of a note? > > Both actually. Both of these things could be added to a note via > > an object property. (Now i wonder if that is true, that I can't > > enter a date on a note. If I specify a date in the command to > > create a note what will happen...) > Well, even if this is possible, it would be a bug ;-) Creation/ > modification dates are internal, if you want a user-defined date, we > should add a property or a column. Yes, the ability to date-stamp a note would be extremely useful. Especially concerning contact/journal like notes they are very often entered after the fact or loaded in from some external source. > For the type we could probably reuse the file extension since notes > have no visible filename anyways. Interesting. > >>> 2. A work journal. > >>> This is for lawyer and engineering types. This seems like it > >>> would be > >>> related to a project, but the end-user really looks at it as a > >>> journal. > >>> So some way to query and present a view of all entries by a > >>> particular > >>> user is needed, which may traverse multiple "projects" (at > >>> least how > >>> the end-user is thinking of the concept of "project"). This is > >>> the one > >>> that seems really arbitrary - and they REALLY want it a certain way > >>> [ lawyers and engineers... if you haven't had the pleasure... :) ] > >> I can't follow that completely. Isn't that tasks? Attached to > >> projects > >> and also shows up in an overview. > > I personally would think so, yes. But how that operates doesn't > > really correspond to how the users view the issue. Tasks open and > > close and are fairly specific, Journal entries are strictly > > chronological and variously 'categorized' entires intermix > > chronologically. But I think I have this one licked anyway. > Hm, so maybe its a "notes" overview. Currently we show notes only in > appointment and project viewers, maybe we should have a top-level > "Notes" application which cummulates the records. Absolutely, yes. > Sounds useful. In fact notes seem to be a perfect fit for journal items. Yes. > >>>> Most objects in OGo already do have a "journal" (tasks, > >>>> appointments, > >>>> projects). I suspect whats actually needed is some kind of > >>>> "reporting" frontend here? Possibly just an RSS feed which > >>>> cumulates > >>>> the "notes" of the individual object types? > >>> I agree, at least on Tasks. Otherwise they only 'sort of' have a > >>> journal; notes could work but I think the functionality would > >>> need some > >>> tweaking. > >> I was referring to notes. What is missing? > > Contacts don't have notes, this is one of the big issues. Of > > course a project can be created for each contact. > Well, my personal opinion is that notes are always bound to a > "context" aka a project (eg "sell xyz to abc" [a project] or "case > 333, murder vh" [a project]). Even if you just start out with one > context (aka project) per contact. > So I suppose whats really missing here is a faster way to create > projects. And possibly a tab which displays the notes of all projects > associated with a contact. Yes. From discuss@opengroupware.org Mon Dec 18 23:05:01 2006 From: discuss@opengroupware.org (Andrew Galdes) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 09:35:01 +1030 Subject: [OGo-Discuss] OpenGroupWare and Smart Phones Message-ID: <943E7810AF0C7B42B91BD3AA3D2A12AF336178@exadl-bisa01.bioinnovationsa.com.au> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C722F8.F21EFAD1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, =20 I am reviewing Open Groupware to replace an aging SLOX system. I would like to hear some comments about sync'ing contacts and calendars with palm pilots and smart phones.=20 =20 Cheers, -Andrew =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C722F8.F21EFAD1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello All,

 

I am reviewing Open Groupware to replace an aging = SLOX system.  I would like to hear some comments about sync’ing = contacts and calendars with palm pilots and smart phones. =

 

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C722F8.F21EFAD1-- From discuss@opengroupware.org Tue Dec 19 02:44:11 2006 From: discuss@opengroupware.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 21:44:11 -0500 Subject: [OGo-Discuss] OpenGroupWare and Smart Phones In-Reply-To: <943E7810AF0C7B42B91BD3AA3D2A12AF336178@exadl-bisa01.bioinnovationsa.com.au> References: <943E7810AF0C7B42B91BD3AA3D2A12AF336178@exadl-bisa01.bioinnovationsa.com.au> Message-ID: <1166496251.5686.2.camel@aleph.whitemice.org> > I am reviewing Open Groupware to replace an aging SLOX system. I > would like to hear some comments about sync’ing contacts and calendars > with palm pilots and smart phones. Current direction is to integrate with mobile devices via GroupDAV & SyncML. http://www.groupdav.org/ http://bionicmessage.net/funambol/index.html http://www.funambol.org From discuss@opengroupware.org Tue Dec 19 02:46:14 2006 From: discuss@opengroupware.org (Andrew Galdes) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:16:14 +1030 Subject: [OGo-Discuss] OpenGroupWare and Smart Phones In-Reply-To: <1166496251.5686.2.camel@aleph.whitemice.org> Message-ID: <943E7810AF0C7B42B91BD3AA3D2A12AF33617C@exadl-bisa01.bioinnovationsa.com.au> Thanks Adam, > > I am reviewing Open Groupware to replace an aging SLOX system. I > > would like to hear some comments about sync'ing contacts and calendars > > with palm pilots and smart phones. >=20 > Current direction is to integrate with mobile devices via GroupDAV & > SyncML. >=20 > http://www.groupdav.org/ > http://bionicmessage.net/funambol/index.html > http://www.funambol.org I will take a look. Cheers, -Andrew From discuss@opengroupware.org Tue Dec 19 11:48:17 2006 From: discuss@opengroupware.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 06:48:17 -0500 Subject: [OGo-Discuss] OpenGroupWare and Smart Phones In-Reply-To: <943E7810AF0C7B42B91BD3AA3D2A12AF33617C@exadl-bisa01.bioinnovationsa.com.au> References: <943E7810AF0C7B42B91BD3AA3D2A12AF33617C@exadl-bisa01.bioinnovationsa.com.au> Message-ID: <1166528897.5686.4.camel@aleph.whitemice.org> > > > I am reviewing Open Groupware to replace an aging SLOX system. I > > > would like to hear some comments about sync'ing contacts and > calendars > > > with palm pilots and smart phones. > > Current direction is to integrate with mobile devices via GroupDAV & > > SyncML. > > http://www.groupdav.org/ > > http://bionicmessage.net/funambol/index.html > > http://www.funambol.org > I will take a look. Most of the discussion for this takes place over on the groupdav@ list since it isn't really OpenGroupware specific. From discuss@opengroupware.org Tue Dec 19 13:24:26 2006 From: discuss@opengroupware.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:24:26 -0500 Subject: [OGo-Discuss] OpenGroupWare and Smart Phones In-Reply-To: <1166528897.5686.4.camel@aleph.whitemice.org> References: <943E7810AF0C7B42B91BD3AA3D2A12AF33617C@exadl-bisa01.bioinnovationsa.com.au> <1166528897.5686.4.camel@aleph.whitemice.org> Message-ID: <1166534666.4296.4.camel@aleph.whitemice.org> On Tue, 2006-12-19 at 06:48 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > > > > I am reviewing Open Groupware to replace an aging SLOX system. I > > > > would like to hear some comments about sync'ing contacts and > > calendars > > > > with palm pilots and smart phones. > > > Current direction is to integrate with mobile devices via GroupDAV & > > > SyncML. > > > http://www.groupdav.org/ > > > http://bionicmessage.net/funambol/index.html > > > http://www.funambol.org > > I will take a look. > Most of the discussion for this takes place over on the groupdav@ list > since it isn't really OpenGroupware specific. And there is news on this front just this morning - http://mail.opengroupware.org/pipermail/groupdav/2006-December/000447.html From discuss@opengroupware.org Sun Dec 31 19:42:02 2006 From: discuss@opengroupware.org (Daniel Pocock) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 19:42:02 +0000 Subject: [OGo-Discuss] Open source client recommendations? Message-ID: <4598128A.8080604@readytechnology.co.uk> Hi, I've been looking at the architecture diagram, and there are many examples of ways that OGo can be accessed from different clients. However, many of the connectors are either alpha (e.g. the Evolution support), proprietary (the Outlook support) or not capable of doing the things I want - mainly contacts and tasks. Can anyone recommend a quick way to get started with an open source client that will let me do the following: - have my contact list (and maybe tasks and calendar) `mirrored' on my laptop, even when disconnected - download my contact list to a program that can print the contacts in long format (e.g. the way Evolution and Outlook does) rather than the list format used in OGo's web interface Regards, Daniel