From discuss@opengroupware.org Sat Jun 2 10:43:45 2007 From: discuss@opengroupware.org (Helge Hess) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 11:43:45 +0200 Subject: [OGo-Discuss] Accounting Apps Re: [OGo-Developer] Changes to trunk, Testing In-Reply-To: <1180442502.4523.16.camel@aleph.whitemice.org> References: <20070529120440.4ACDF3FD85@l00-bugdead-prods.de> <1180441138.4523.11.camel@aleph.whitemice.org> <41234F07-600D-427F-B00A-E557C7A241DF@opengroupware.org> <1180442502.4523.16.camel@aleph.whitemice.org> Message-ID: On May 29, 2007, at 14:41, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > No, unfortunately not. And I've looked! Open Source Accounting / > Line-Of-Business apps are seriously wanting. Is it possible to specify what such an application should do? :-) What kind of data would need to be captured and what functionality is required? Is it supposedly difficult to get such an app right? (does it involve tax laws and such?) I mean adding a product and invoice table and wrapping that in a tableview sounds rather trivial, but are there specific things/ details which make that kind of app hard? Greets, Helge -- Helge Hess http://www.helgehess.eu/ From discuss@opengroupware.org Sat Jun 2 13:36:24 2007 From: discuss@opengroupware.org (Adam Williams) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 08:36:24 -0400 Subject: [OGo-Discuss] Accounting Apps Re: [OGo-Developer] Changes to trunk, Testing In-Reply-To: References: <20070529120440.4ACDF3FD85@l00-bugdead-prods.de> <1180441138.4523.11.camel@aleph.whitemice.org> <41234F07-600D-427F-B00A-E557C7A241DF@opengroupware.org> <1180442502.4523.16.camel@aleph.whitemice.org> Message-ID: <1180787784.5900.21.camel@ws01.whitemice.org> > > No, unfortunately not. And I've looked! Open Source Accounting / > > Line-Of-Business apps are seriously wanting. > Is it possible to specify what such an application should do? :-) Sure, but the list ends up being rather long. Basically, once there is a ledger of accounts, you need AR, AP, Invoicing, probably some kind of Point-Of-Sale, and reconciliation. This assumes that inventory control is entirely an external issue (unlikely). Allot of this depends on the size of the company; probably REALLY small companies (a few people) can get by with something like GNUCash, larger companies (100+ employees) are almost certainly going to go with a commercial solution. The available target for Open Source is, I think, the 25 - 100 employee companies. Another issue, not really a feature, is data entry. Accounting operations do LOTS of data entry even at fairly small companies. Data entry needs to be fast, efficient, and reliable - and able to keep up with someone who has been doing ten key for decades. In investigating line-of-business applications I've watched users vote down "superior" systems simply because of the data entry technique. If it is a pain to work with, or constantly makes them reach for the mouse, accounting clerks or order entry people will let you know! :) > What kind of data would need to be captured and what functionality is > required? It needs to start by implementing a double entry ledger system that supports a hierarchy of accounts. This part I think is pretty simple the biggest constraint is that transactions need to be forced to balance. > Is it supposedly difficult to get such an app right? (does it involve > tax laws and such?) If the company is selling material goods (at least in the USA) then the application must handle sales tax. This itself is pretty complex as each municipality, county, and state may each have their own sales tax. If the company is selling only a one specific locale (like a brick-n-mortar store) this isn't so bad but it the company has multiple locations or ships items then a full implementation is pretty much required. With a good ledger system figuring out the taxes accumulated to each organ of government is pretty easy, but tallying the tax for the sale itself requires knowing allot of information. I don't think it is necessary to include payroll. In the USA almost everyone outsources most of that since it is REALLY complicated and screwing it up can land you in hot water. Probably the most interesting contender which I stumbled across recently, but haven't had a change to poke at, is Quasar Accounting. http://www.linuxcanada.com/quasar.shtml The accounting package is GPL, but their retail/point-of-sale package is proprietary. > I mean adding a product and invoice table and wrapping that in a > tableview sounds rather trivial, but are there specific things/ > details which make that kind of app hard? That sounds like a system for posting and tracking sales, not an accounting application. At the end of the day you need to be able to turn over your books to a CPA or tax man in order to do things like pay taxes, register financial statements, etc...