From documentation@opengroupware.org Sat Sep 23 21:39:10 2006 From: documentation@opengroupware.org (TimJowers@Yahoo.Com) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 13:39:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OGo-Documentation] Book review of Open Groupware Message-ID: <20060923203910.38476.qmail@web56405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Everyone, I'm writing a book to promote OpenSource to business and have reviewed OpenGroupware in the Groupware/Messaging chapter. Could someone check what I have? Any additions, errors, or suggestions are welcomed. I hope to wrap this up in the next two weeks. A later edition will probably follow in 2007. The goal is to show businesses "what" is available and then let them investigate more. Let them see the huge number of OpenSource packages out there. http://www.serviza.com/SoftwareIsFree-ForBusiness.pdf Thanks, TimJowers P.S> I've tried to sign up on this list twice with no luck. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From documentation@opengroupware.org Sun Sep 24 22:32:27 2006 From: documentation@opengroupware.org (Helge Hess) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:32:27 +0200 Subject: [OGo-Documentation] Book review of Open Groupware In-Reply-To: <20060923203910.38476.qmail@web56405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20060923203910.38476.qmail@web56405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sep 23, 2006, at 22:39, TimJowers@Yahoo.Com wrote: > P.S> I've tried to sign up on this list twice with no luck. What was the problem with signing up? Thanks, Helge -- Helge Hess http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ From documentation@opengroupware.org Mon Sep 25 03:00:35 2006 From: documentation@opengroupware.org (Adam Williams) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:00:35 -0400 Subject: [OGo-Documentation] Book review of Open Groupware Message-ID: <1159149636.4375.96.camel@ws01.whitemice.org> > I'm writing a book to promote OpenSource to business and have reviewed >OpenGroupware in the Groupware/Messaging chapter. Could someone check what I >have? Any additions, errors, or suggestions are welcomed. I hope to wrap this You have at least one rather serious mis-categorization. You place both Zimbra and Open-Exchange as "Messaging Email Server". Both of these packages are "Team Effort/Groupware", closer to the category of OpenGroupware than a mail message server. That category should include, at least: Cyrus IMAPd, and possibly Courier and Dovecot. The *focus* of neither of the listed products is specifically e-mail; although both provide at least e-mail front-end functionality - as does OpenGroupware (and nearly countless other products/projects). Also your "Financial Incentives" charts should include at least a footnote indicating that these numbers are based on retail prices - organizations of any significant size can purchase site/seat licenses of products like M$-Office for FAR FAR FAR LESS than street retail price. Exaggerating the *immediate* price savings of Open Source software makes it child's play for a competing pro-proprietary consultant to trash the integrity of your document. It is hard for me even to recount the number of times I've watched a site lost by an over-eager advocate. >up in the next two weeks. A later edition will probably follow in 2007. The >goal is to show businesses "what" is available and then let them investigate >more. Let them see the huge number of OpenSource packages out there. >http://www.serviza.com/SoftwareIsFree-ForBusiness.pdf I'd be happy to write a short section on OpenGroupware. I assume it is acceptable to submit this as an ODT file? >Thanks, >TimJowers > P.S I've tried to sign up on this list twice with no luck. From documentation@opengroupware.org Mon Sep 25 12:40:19 2006 From: documentation@opengroupware.org (Olivier Hallot) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:40:19 -0300 Subject: [OGo-Documentation] Book review of Open Groupware In-Reply-To: <1159149636.4375.96.camel@ws01.whitemice.org> References: <1159149636.4375.96.camel@ws01.whitemice.org> Message-ID: <4517C023.6080009@scinergy.com.br> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Adam Williams escreveu: > > Also your "Financial Incentives" charts should include at least a > footnote indicating that these numbers are based on retail prices - > organizations of any significant size can purchase site/seat licenses of > products like M$-Office for FAR FAR FAR LESS than street retail price. > Exaggerating the *immediate* price savings of Open Source software makes > it child's play for a competing pro-proprietary consultant to trash the > integrity of your document. It is hard for me even to recount the > number of times I've watched a site lost by an over-eager advocate. Indeed. It is better to put the price tag as the last benefit of all OpenSource choice. Several reasons for that especially if a proprietary software house tags it's price near to zero, and you will not be compelled to go Opensource. The debate of FOSS vs Proprietary is a debate of where each of the avaliable solution fits in the business rather than best price, since most of the benefits of each type of software is on the ROI of your investment rather that the immediate spending. One of my best is the fact that you don't have to control EULAs, and are no more subject to audits. See... in some countries, the piracy of well establhished propritary software is the toughest competition to all open-source, "free-as-in-beer" offering. Not surprising that famous hipocrite software makers claims losses from piracy but welcome it to gain market share (as well as mind share). Once you are caught into the proprietary culture and get business succe$$, you get a visit from the local BSA. It happens countless times here. Olivier -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mandriva - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFF8AiEMsV9n6V2ggRAmTvAJ4rZjT+dKmbhynm7NfLOeH7Pe7tRgCeOijA KjZXJTyepopzpBV/TmMb2Hs= =3W1x -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From documentation@opengroupware.org Mon Sep 25 12:48:23 2006 From: documentation@opengroupware.org (Adam Williams) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 07:48:23 -0400 Subject: [OGo-Documentation] Book review of Open Groupware In-Reply-To: <20060925100015.94506.qmail@web56413.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20060925100015.94506.qmail@web56413.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1159184904.4375.125.camel@ws01.whitemice.org> > I'll clean up the numbers and would love to recieve some text and/or > screenshots of OpenGroupware. The struggle I have is identifying what business > problem "groupware" addresses. Communications? Email. Collaboration? Shared > Calendar and Scheduling Meetings. Maybe I need to focus on the "Projects and > Documents" portion. This would squarely set Open Groupware against Microsoft > Sharepoint and Interwoven Teamsite. Are they competitors? "Groupware" is an expansive category. OpenGroupware competes with both Microsoft Exchange and Microsoft Sharepoint. I have no experience with Teamsite. As for what problem groupware addresses I would say "all of the above"; with a note that it is not about "Shared Calendering" but "Scheduling". An important point, at least from my perspective, is the difference between PIM systems and groupware servers. PIMs (Personal Information Managers) are essentially about personal information [ Duh! :) ]. Hence you have your contact list, your calender(s), etc... And PIMs may provide a mechanism to share information such as publishing a calendar or placing contacts in some common repository - but ultimately it is about managing a person's information. With groupware servers the emphasis is on the sharing of information; so you don't have 'your calender' - you have events on *A* calender. Think about scheduling a meeting concerning 13 divisions in an organization of 400+ people if each has their own calender, etc... You need to check and then post to n-number of calenders, possibly subsequently modifying n-number of calendars if the event changes (and you'll need to check EVERY calendar to see if the event is there), etc... You can see how things like simple web-calendars differ radically from 'groupware' when you think about it that way. Or, say, you have a salesperson with a contact list and call schedule... then that salesperson leaves. In a PIM type environment you need to copy all the contacts and what not over to the replacement (if they aren't just lost), with a groupware system such contacts are just grouped by some category, etc... and naturally follow to the new person. There really is a significant difference, but unless you've have a real need for groupware it is hard to grasp; hence you get comments like the following from the people who are doing Hula: ----- The trick is, I bet the actual useful "spirit" of groupware will arise from a simple, good, useful app like they are (now) describing with Hula. If people are able to easily publish their schedule and organize events, and this is done with a good focus on the user and usability, then this will be a great way to organize a team as a side effect. And by taking that approach, you toss out all the silty garbage that usually gets tossed into groupware. ----- See "easily publish their schedule"? :) My "PIM" LED starts flashing when I see that. Not that PIMs can't act allot like groupware servers (Horde, possibly Hula) and that a groupware server can't act allot like a PIM (M$-Exchange). Regarding Exchange I like the description of a *NEW* feature in Exchange 2007: ----- Smart Scheduling: The addition of Scheduling Assistant and Calendar Attendant mean that Exchange tracks not only the schedules of all meeting invitees but also the availability of meeting rooms and can manage all of this on the server, so meetings can be fully scheduled without everyone's Outlook client being connected. ------ Sometimes Exchange sounds like some kind of big PIM federator. :) Also groupware tends to roll-up a lot of functionality often provided by disparate applications: document control, project management, task management (and specifically delegation - which almost no PIMs do), contact management. Of course what is including in each groupware system and how well it does any of the above varies widely. Rolling-up these applications makes sense since they are intrinsically interconnected anyway. In addition to the PIM/Groupware dicotomy is [again, to me] the Groupware/Enterprise-Groupware dicotomy. The difference here is the ability to extend and integrate the groupware system with other applications. Exchange provides an API and some DAV integration support. Lotus Notes provides a scripting language and IIOP. OpenGroupware provides an XML-RPC API as well as ZideStore's DAV/GroupDAV/WCAP support. In larger organizations with an IT department such facilities support automation and integration with workflow processes; currently very few Open Source groupware solutions provide such capabilities. If I have to maintain 60,000+ contacts and 20,000+ customers then such facilities aren't just nice, they are necessary. I hope some of that helps. :) > > > I'm writing a book to promote OpenSource to business and have reviewed > > >OpenGroupware in the Groupware/Messaging chapter. Could someone check what I > > >have? Any additions, errors, or suggestions are welcomed. I hope to wrap > > this > > You have at least one rather serious mis-categorization. You place both > > Zimbra and Open-Exchange as "Messaging Email Server". Both of these > > packages are "Team Effort/Groupware", closer to the category of > > OpenGroupware than a mail message server. That category should include, > > at least: Cyrus IMAPd, and possibly Courier and Dovecot. The *focus* of > > neither of the listed products is specifically e-mail; although both > > provide at least e-mail front-end functionality - as does OpenGroupware > > (and nearly countless other products/projects). > > Also your "Financial Incentives" charts should include at least a > > footnote indicating that these numbers are based on retail prices - > > organizations of any significant size can purchase site/seat licenses of > > products like M$-Office for FAR FAR FAR LESS than street retail price. > > Exaggerating the *immediate* price savings of Open Source software makes > > it child's play for a competing pro-proprietary consultant to trash the > > integrity of your document. It is hard for me even to recount the > > number of times I've watched a site lost by an over-eager advocate. > > >up in the next two weeks. A later edition will probably follow in 2007. The > > >goal is to show businesses "what" is available and then let them investigate > > >more. Let them see the huge number of OpenSource packages out there. > > >http://www.serviza.com/SoftwareIsFree-ForBusiness.pdf > > I'd be happy to write a short section on OpenGroupware. I assume it is > > acceptable to submit this as an ODT file?